Conspiracies Don't Exist...

[pra_ggresion]

I don't know the Bible and Koran are rife with rationalizations for genocide, incest, and prejudgment.

[bluesilver]

The one thing history teaches us is that greedy people always attempt, through cunning/oppression/murder/propaganda/popular thought, to control the rest of civilization. They have also known for thousands of years that religion, when twisted, is the easiest and most clandestine way of influencing people. Christianity/Islam don't preach preemptive wars for empire or usury. Those should be attributed to their rightful parties, corrupt people not religions.

I firmly beleive christianity was founded on the ideas of better control over the people, oppression and the need for power. It may have even been necessary back then, but it's antiquated and stupid now.

[Ceedog]

I would agree if we were looking at a man made institution like say.., a big church that has been around since the time of Rome. That is what controls people, same thing with these large, centralized, church councils/conventions. Its easier to corrupt things when power is centralized and further from the people, this is how tyranny has thrived throughout history.

[bluesilver]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

I've spoken recently with experts in this field and can say this one's true. Although it mainly only speaks about oil, the amount of overall energy sources (oil, coal, LNG, Uranium...) will actually be completely depleted within 35 years.

[Spent]

I firmly beleive christianity was founded on the ideas of better control over the people, oppression and the need for power. It may have even been necessary back then, but it's antiquated and stupid now.

This concept pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years. Arguably, Hierarchy began with the rise of the priest/ medicine man. Evidence suggests human 'societies' were far more egalitarian before religion became so 'established.'

I don't think it was ever necessary, like you state Blue. Only for those at the top of the chain. And its still necessary, along with this mythical concept of 'democracy' and the false of hopes of technology and science, to keep us all in line.

[bluesilver]

Hey Spent, You're right.

And keep your eyes open, you're going to start seeing more disturbing things in the news sooner than later.

[erzats]

the amount of overall energy sources (oil, coal, LNG, Uranium...) will actually be completely depleted within 35 years.

Unfortunately you are wrong. You should actually read that article and get your facts straight. I think you are confusing energy production growth rates with total energy usage. i.e. peak oil (which is peak oil growth) versus peak total oil consumption. The rate of oil production will begin to fall soon and as soon as the production rate is outpaced by economic growth, the price of oil has to go up. But, there's still a lot of oil around.

There's a couple hundred yearsof years of dirty as shite coal. So, although it would be nice if fossil fuels ran out sooner than later for the sake of CO2 in the atmosphere, thats not going to happen. The Energy Information Administration recorded a consumption of 1.2 billion tons of coal in North America last year and the reserve is about 272 billion (in North America). So, even with growth in coal usage, that's plenty of coal.

There's lots of natural gas but it's hard to distribute. There's a shite ton of uranium and if we could get comfortable with dealing with hot nuclear waste that has a 150,000 year half life it would be useful to humans.

I guess the big question is if our energy-inflated way of life in the "developed" world is going to pop like a balloon or lose air like a leaky tire. The former scenario is a whole lot more fun to wrap your mind around because it's got teeth. It includes progressive hipsters buying guns to defend slices of inter-urban heaven, building forts to protect your fixed gear bicycle and home brewery, or stockpiling cans of chew, beans, gasoline, and coors beer, and somehow regaining a sense of masculinity and tribalism that was Iost when all this energy got in the way. I don't know that that's how it's going to shake out. The leaky tire scenario means high unemployment, probably more frequent wars, and slow, re-nucleation of our communities unless alternative energy sources come on line in a way to replace our oil use. I think that big media will make all of this much more palatable to the masses than it should be thereby keeping large-scale revolution from breaking out. Most will just come to accept the conditions. I dunno, that's my short take.

[erzats]

I think the biggest tragedy will be that we wasted all of that oil and did so much damage with and failed to recognize it as a way to step off of it and onto a different energy source. I think it could have been a nice leg up and all we did was use it to grow corn, drive to mcdonalds, and light up our televisions.

[bluesilver]

EZ - yes, some say we have a couiple hundred years of coal left........... do you know how much coal we now import and why? Your information is outdated. 200+ years has been downgraded to under 40 and that was 5 years ago. This is why we now import coal, to preserve what coal security we have at home. I'm not doubting that you've done your own research, but I've talked with experts in this industry within the last few weeks. Don't assume that because I posted a single link that I stumbled upon it while watching something on StupidVideos.com.
I'd heard rumors around 2 years ago of some interesting government projects taking place. I told people to pound sand because I figured the rumors were unfounded. I've found more and more evidence that these projects I've been told of actually are taking place. I'll be researching those some more...
And Uranium... we know where it is. It's easy to find. We know how much there is... I specifically asked about Nuclear power when I was talking to someone in the know and he brought out the facts, data and references.
He also told me that it's generally agreed that if all countries, especially the industrialized nations could come to agreement, we could have the energy crisis solved in roughly 15 years. This is not going to happen.

[bluesilver]

ez - If you have solid research send me some links, I've read and heard opinions and 'facts' from both sides and it's deeply troubling. I'd like to be shown that what i've been told by some in the energy and security industry is false.

[erzats]

I went here:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/

Shows our current coal usage, projected usage, and current known coal reserves. My numbers assume that all the coal produced in the US stays in the US. This probably won't happen given that coal is a commodoty and will be sold to the highest bidder be they domestic or international. It also assumes that the last bits of coal will be as easy to get at as the stuff available now -- probably not true. Still, there's a lot of coal. easily a hundred years worth if we hoard it.

There's a lot on the web page. I think the conspiracy minded often forget that gubermint agencies actually think a lot about these things and then make most of it pretty transparent (if overwhelming). However, I've seen it pointed out that the projected usage and the supply side aren't always forced to match. So...

It seems like energy supply will get pinchy and thus expensive. I think one of the reasons (maybe the reason) that we aren't way better about keeping CO2 emissions low is that a lot of people realize that right now is the last gasp of cheap energy and thus cheap production and easy money. The view is something like "It's all going to be burned anyway, so why not now and to my profit?"

[bluesilver]

I've seen a lot of that data when I was back East, actually all of this was a smaller part of some other things I was learning about.

What bothers me is that a couple years ago I'd heard some rumors about government projects taking place that might cause a lot of alarm to the general public. In typical fashion I brushed it off as bullshat because what I was told seemed pretty far fetched. A few days ago I'd heard the same from a completely seperate source and this one has me worried. I'd like to find out sooner than later. If it is all true, then I change my stance on Iraq and a few other things make sense as well.

One main thing I do not agree with - Some people think that if the USA defaults on our loans from the powers that be, we should expect a war that will change the world for the worse in many ways. If oil truly is a solid reason for the United States to default and fall apart, I do not see China or Russia invading anyone.

[Ceedog]

This concept pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years. Arguably, Hierarchy began with the rise of the priest/ medicine man. Evidence suggests human 'societies' were far more egalitarian before religion became so 'established.'

Yep... the shamans/medicine men had passed down info about stars, weather patterns, etc that allowed them the ability to appeared special in the eyes of the grunts. They guarded that info and only gave it to their successors, sounds like what is still happening. I agree that the use of religion over the years has definitely been suspect. The Japanese and the sun religion conjured up by the emperor class is a great example.

[Ceedog]

Did anyone hear about the scientists that came out a while back with the theory that oil was produced naturally within the earth and wasn't neccessarily from plant and animal remains?

[bluesilver]

nope